ANTI-TERRORIST TRAINING  SECURITY SERVICES                           IMS Security (310) 360-1767 info@ims-security.com     VIP PROTECTION   SPECIAL EVENT MANAGEMENT   SECURITY CONSULTING      PUBLIC RELATIONS & MEDIA    COUNTER-TERROR SCHOOL                  Recent Press Hits: KATU News Portland CNN - Paula Zahn Now       CNN - Paula Zahn Now      MSNBC-Dan Abrams      L.A. Times 1          L.A. Times 2  Daily News    FHM  Magazine The Jewish Journal         New York Post             Access Hollywood                                                                                                                                             MSNBC NEWS 'The Abrams Report' for April 9, 2004' Guests:  Terry Anderson, Aaron Cohen, Richard Ben-Veniste, Dean Johnson, Mickey Sherman, Natasha Lapiner-Giresi, Matthew ANNOUNCER:  Now THE ABRAMS REPORT.  Here is Dan Abrams. DAN ABRAMS, HOST:  Hi everyone.  A new tool for insurgents in Iraq—kidnapping civilians.  They claim to have kidnapped two Americans and four Italians today.  This after terrorists threaten to do burn three Japanese citizens unless Japan withdraws from Iraq.  We‘ll talk to a former American hostage about this latest tactic.  And you heard about Dr. Condoleezza Rice testifying in front of the 9/11 commission.  But what about former President Clinton and Vice President Gore?  They testified as well.  We‘ll talk to one of the commission members about how it went and look forward to next week‘s testimony of current and former law enforcement officials, Louis Freeh and Janet Reno to John Ashcroft.  And the judge priding in the Michael Jackson case says he expects the grand jury to indict Michael Jackson on molestation charges.  Based upon what?  He is not even there.  Does this mean Jackson has no hope of avoiding a trial?  But, first, kidnapping seems to be the latest tool for Iraqi insurgents hoping to force out occupying forces.  Today they claimed to have seized four Italians and two Americans on the western outskirts of Baghdad.  While there‘s no further confirmation of the kidnapping, a “Reuters” journalist reports seeing two foreign captives in a mosque.  One person said had been wounded in the shoulder and both were crying.  This comes after kidnappers released videos of three Japanese civilians held hostage.  The captors threatened to burn them alive unless Japan withdraws its troops from Iraq.  Japan has refused.  A Lebanese TV station said it received a letter from a group calling itself the Mohammed E. Jihad Breed Brigades (ph), claiming responsibility for kidnapping foreigners in Iraq.  The letter reportedly demanded the U.S. lift the U.S. blockade around Fallujah in exchange for the prisoners‘ release.  The U.S. military had the reaction you would expect.  We don‘t negotiate with terrorists.  My first guest knows all too well what it means to be held hostage.  Terry Anderson was the Beirut bureau chief when he was kidnapped by Muslim extremists in 1985.  He was held captive for nearly seven years, the longest of any American hostage, before he was finally released in 1991.  And Aaron Cohen is a former member of Israel‘s Special Forces counterterrorism unit and founder of an antiterrorism-consulting firm.  Thank you both very much for coming on the program.  Mr. Anderson, let me start with you.  In terms of, you know, what is going through the minds of these people who have been kidnapped?  I would assume that, you know—obviously great fear, concern.  When you were initially kidnapped, what were you thinking?  TERRY ANDERSON, FORMER HOSTAGE:  Of course you are frightened.  You are in peril of death.  You have to belief these people are serious when they threaten to kill you.  You feel helpless, helpless in a way that most people never can grasp.  And you feel angry.  Angry at yourself because you know the kind of suffering that your family is going to feel when they hear about this.  I think probably the hardest thing to take is the helplessness, though.  ABRAMS:  As a journalist at that time where you were, were there concerns that there might be something like this?  Did this come out of nowhere?  ANDERSON:  I don‘t think it came out of nowhere.  The conditions are there.  It‘s very clearly akin to Lebanon in the 1980‘s.  There‘s no central authority.  There‘s no police force effectively.  There‘s nothing to stop them, and there are dozens of militia groups who are angry, who hate us.  It‘s exactly the conditions that went on in Lebanon that a lot of those kidnappings to continue for seven and eight years.  It‘s a very, very dangerous situation, and I‘m afraid it‘s going to get more dangerous.  ABRAMS:  Before I talk about sort of how to go about dealing with this sort of political/military level, what‘s the most important thing for people—for someone who has been kidnapped—you were there for years and years—to keep their sanity, to be able to survive?  What‘s the most important thing, do you think?  ANDERSON:  To hold on to your sense of self.  To hold on to your sense of dignity and integrity.  It‘s very hard.  You‘re subjected to continual humiliations and threats.  You just—you have to keep hold of yourself, and you have to keep going from hour to hour to hour and not lose help.  There are a couple things in this situation I would like to say, Dan.  One of them is to those young people who have gone to Iraq to try to help aid groups and the Red Cross and—like these young Japanese people, I think you should go back to your hotel and pack your bag and sit out until somebody can get you to the airport.  This is going to get worse.  It‘s not going to stop in a hurry.  And I want to say to the Islamic clergy in Iraq, any leader, any mullah who does not stand up today and denounce these kidnappings, these threats of these young people—one of them is 18 years old, for God sakes—who does not denounce this is despicable in God‘s sight, cannot claim to be a follower of Islam. ABRAMS:  Well said.  Aaron Cohen, what does Israel do?  I mean there have been a number of situations where Israeli soldiers have been taken hostage, where Israeli civilians have been kidnapped.  How does Israel deal with it? AARON COHEN, ANTI-TERRORISM EXPERT:  Israel deals with it the same way the U.S. deals with it.  We have a no negotiating policy.  In Israel there‘s a very clear-cut set of rules that are used.  The first thing, obviously, is to gather, you know, as much intelligence as possible on the, you know the potential locations of the terrorists and the situation of the hostages.  Afterwards they want to get there as quickly as possible and begin some type of dialogue so they can begin to take control of what they call controlling the process and what that allows them to do is slow things down and buy them time.  Meanwhile, while things are being controlled and slowed down, if it‘s possible, this would give, you know, a country the ability, like Israel, to actually be able to begin to plan some type of, you know, strategic assault, anti-terror, hostage rescue that‘s highly trained in selective shooting that can actually physically go in and bring out the hostages with the minimal amount of risk.  ABRAMS:  But there have been cases, have there not, where Israel has made trades, where they have traded civilians or soldiers for, you know, 400 or so Arab prisoners. COHEN:  They have made negotiations before, and they have engaged in deals, and it purely depends on the situation.  If Israel has the ability to negotiate and reduce the risk to the captives by the captors, then obviously they‘re going to do their best to get everybody out alive, and unfortunately, the situation in Israel is very complex, but it‘s not indifferent to what they‘re doing now.  ABRAMS:  But I was just clarifying when it says no negotiating policy, you are not going to give them what they‘re asking for, meaning no one is going to give into some political demand like pull out of the West Bank or pull out of Iraq.  The only thing that Israel has considered at times is making trades, correct?  COHEN:  Correct.  Absolutely... ABRAMS:  All right. COHEN:  ... correct. ABRAMS:  All right.  Terry Anderson and Aaron Cohen, thanks a lot for coming on the program.  Appreciate it.  COHEN:  Thank you, Dan.   © Copyright 2001-2004  IMS Security, Inc. , All rights reserved.